MessengerX
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It seems that so few have good taste when it comes to watching television.
Troll Kingdom
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TKers and their shows
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MessengerX
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Only the occasional film now. I used to watch Farscape.
I think I was mistaken when I stated that 'their shows' are silly. What's silly is watching a television show and thinking it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Look at some of the members here. I can think of three right away which seem to absolutely worship their dramas.
24 is an excellent example of the decadence in the art of drama. I base this entirely on those horrible camera angles and strange zooming in and out to try which make the shows more 'gritty.'
I think I was mistaken when I stated that 'their shows' are silly. What's silly is watching a television show and thinking it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Look at some of the members here. I can think of three right away which seem to absolutely worship their dramas.
24 is an excellent example of the decadence in the art of drama. I base this entirely on those horrible camera angles and strange zooming in and out to try which make the shows more 'gritty.'
MessengerX
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Are you a 24 fan?Conchaga said:
MessengerX
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Could you describe your experiences in dealing with the entertainment industry? I have to say that much of what I see seems to be purposefully dumbed down.
MessengerX
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So?
MessengerX said:
Just say my fucking name, don't skirt around it.
24 is a great show. Perfect? No, hardly. But it's till a great show. the camera angles can sometimes get annoying but I don't notice it really. It's pure entertainment. Don't try and knock my taste in what I want to watch.
I like a lot of shows. I like a lot of drama's as well.
Your argument against 24 is weak. You would be better served talking about some of the convoluted moments, implausible plot threads and rehashing of the same themes into the later seasons.
But that doesn't change the fact that it is a highly addictive and fun show to watch. That's all I want. I don't need MX approved television.
As for the decadance of drama being caused by 24's zooming camera angles.. LOL..
Don't be silly. It's a technique, one that gets admittedly over-used in 24 from time to time. 24 has been innovative in it's own way and is a solid drama piece and as I said before.. FUN.
Try again.
Decadence of drama. LOL.. You do have a penchant for the dramatic.
Peter Octavian
New member
Mentalist said:
I agree and disagree.
It's used a lot, but not overly so.
This technique isn't just filler or stylishness: It's decided misdirection in the best spirit of magicianship.
You're absolutely right about the implausibility of some of the plot conventions, but then, can we really bitch and moan about that when many of us have accepted the conventions of a matter/energy transportation device, or a protagonist with a adamantium reinforced skeleton?
If you watch 24 on DVD, without the benefit of commercials, you see clearly that the writers and directors are counting on the six days between episodes to help the viewer forgive or forget some of the insurmountable and drastic events so that the story can advance. (Chase's hand being shot in S3 springs to mind)
And the jump edits and peculiar angles are all part of this.
As an audience, we've been conditioned, perhaps even taught outright, what to expect from dramatic presentations on TV and film. We know, for instance, that we're in for a shock or suprise if the music fades and the scene grows quiet for too long. We've learned to predict meaning when we see (or don't see) reaction shots before a scene segues. We may or may not realize it, but we've learned a lot about the language of camera angles and editing.
The creators of 24 know that we've become savvy when interpreting conventions and style elements, and have used those very elements in novel ways which have effectively kept us surprised and on the edges of our seats for 4 seasons and counting.
Now, if you want to talk about decadence on TV, lets discuss American Idol, Survivor and the roll call of middling reality programming. Even in comparison, I couldn't call 24 "art", but at least it's creators have actually, well.......created something engaging, and not just rolled a snowball down the side of a mountain hoping it will gain size and momentum, and kill a few skiers on the way down.
BlazerBoy
New member
Don't crack on American Idol. Showcases of amateur talent shows have been around american entertainment and culture since its inception. Even if the format is sometimes hokey, and the tendcy is to showcase the worst talent more, there are moments when the show nets some actual talent and many peopl ewatch it just for that purpose.
MessengerX
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Excellent way of putting it.Peter Octavian said:
Peter Octavian
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Sorry, it's horseshit.
I don't hate the idea behind it, I despise the execution.
Besides the fact that Paula Abdul is fairly talentless, save for dancing, and that Simon Cowell is a constipated prick, the show has done crappy things to singers who've auditioned, and amateur singers in general.
I spend roughly 3 months a year with amateur singers. There was a time when people would do open mike night, or karaoke for fun, or because they sang well and the experience of music was a source of delight for them.
Since the advent of American idol, that's all changed. People who are good singers have become bigger prima donnas than they ever had been before. Some of the average to below average ones have as well, and now believe that working on their kinesics is more important than becoming better singers.
And the lion's share of them behave as though they believe that they're next in line to grab a bit of that old Kelly Clarkson fame.
Problem is, the ones who audition have a long odds chance, at best, and they're treated like shit while they're waiting for their turn to sing. The preliminary judging is harsh, not to mention the treatment you're likely to get from Simon if you get that far.
Of the folks I've known who've returned from having an audition, their snobbery about being "auditionworthy" has increased, or they've been hurt and discouraged by the process, and retreated from their involvement in music.
And I understand, if you want to make music your business, your career, your life, you have to expect some hard knocks. But for all but a lucky, lucky handful, American Idol isn't the way a career in music is going to happen. So those with talent are wasting their time and energy. And those who don't have a prayer of ever getting into the limelight, it's a risk not worth taking. When you consider the absolute joy of being involved with music, to sing, to perform, to be engaged by it, even if you're doing it badly, isn't worth standing line with 6 thousand other people at one of the Idol cattle calls only to be told at the end of the day that you're not good enough, not pretty enough, or have to be subjected to an earful from that pontificating twat Simon Cowell that you need to return home and never open your mouth in public again, at least not to sing.
Sorry. Gotta do some pretty serious cracking on American Idol. If there's something transcendant and divine hovering above our reality, music certainly is it's window into this world. A shame to cheapen it with crap like this.
I don't hate the idea behind it, I despise the execution.
Besides the fact that Paula Abdul is fairly talentless, save for dancing, and that Simon Cowell is a constipated prick, the show has done crappy things to singers who've auditioned, and amateur singers in general.
I spend roughly 3 months a year with amateur singers. There was a time when people would do open mike night, or karaoke for fun, or because they sang well and the experience of music was a source of delight for them.
Since the advent of American idol, that's all changed. People who are good singers have become bigger prima donnas than they ever had been before. Some of the average to below average ones have as well, and now believe that working on their kinesics is more important than becoming better singers.
And the lion's share of them behave as though they believe that they're next in line to grab a bit of that old Kelly Clarkson fame.
Problem is, the ones who audition have a long odds chance, at best, and they're treated like shit while they're waiting for their turn to sing. The preliminary judging is harsh, not to mention the treatment you're likely to get from Simon if you get that far.
Of the folks I've known who've returned from having an audition, their snobbery about being "auditionworthy" has increased, or they've been hurt and discouraged by the process, and retreated from their involvement in music.
And I understand, if you want to make music your business, your career, your life, you have to expect some hard knocks. But for all but a lucky, lucky handful, American Idol isn't the way a career in music is going to happen. So those with talent are wasting their time and energy. And those who don't have a prayer of ever getting into the limelight, it's a risk not worth taking. When you consider the absolute joy of being involved with music, to sing, to perform, to be engaged by it, even if you're doing it badly, isn't worth standing line with 6 thousand other people at one of the Idol cattle calls only to be told at the end of the day that you're not good enough, not pretty enough, or have to be subjected to an earful from that pontificating twat Simon Cowell that you need to return home and never open your mouth in public again, at least not to sing.
Sorry. Gotta do some pretty serious cracking on American Idol. If there's something transcendant and divine hovering above our reality, music certainly is it's window into this world. A shame to cheapen it with crap like this.
Peter Octavian
New member
Mentalist said:
I understand the sentiment, but I've spent 15 years with the ones who were TRULY hopeless. Most of them are completely oblivious to the fact that they're terrible, and the fact that they've been able to perform in front of people and enjoy some acceptance is priceless to them.
I've seen more than a few bad singers ( even some passably average ones) crushed when they've been ridiculed.
I'm not condemning you for laughing, but after all this time, I 've learned that music is a healing force in the lives of some of these amateur performers, even if they can't carry a tune across the street. Seeing this simple pleasure spoiled for them because of ridicule is heartbreaking.
BlazerBoy
New member
I think music is as close to a religion as I'm ever going to get. I never watched the show to laugh at people or get into Jerry Springer-esque type gawking at fights and Simon's ascerbicness. I watched it solely for the music, and becuase every once and awhile, I would connect to a person and their performance of a song. It happened to me when I saw Latoya London sing Somewhere, and Fantasias "What are you doing for the rest of your life" actualy brought tears to my eyes. People can take different things from the show. I don't care if Simon Cowell died tonight and never appeared on the show, if Randy had a heart attack from a clogged artery, and Paula got drunk, and drove her Mercedes off a cliff while smooching an underaged contestant. Hell, if Ryan Seacrest got caught with his pants down in the mens dressing room with some young flaming brat, I'd still only raise my eyebrow a bit. I watch the show to connect with that one or even few peopl ewith talent who perform with their heart rather than their outrageous personalities.