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Boston under marshal law
- Thread starter Conchaga
- Start date
FBI parte due
Folces Weard
Governor in over his head looking for an easy solution to a difficult, really public problem, combined with the nationwide trend towards casual totalitarianism.
Same as with the snow emergency.
Same as with the snow emergency.
FBI parte due
Folces Weard
It's definitely wrong to call it martial law, but it is an overreaction nonetheless.
Conchaga
Let's fuck some shit up
I agree with the overreaction bit. They don't need the national guard for a lone 19 year-old with limited supplies and his face on nationwide wanted posters plastered all over the internet. If they went through this type of expenditure for every multiple-murderer in the US, we'd be completely bankrupt inside of a day.
Here are the agencies I know of that are currently involved in the manhunt.
Massachusetts National Guard and several non NG EOD units
Department of Homeland Security
NSA
FBI
CIA
Massachusetts State Police
Boston PD
There are hundreds of uniformed and badge-toting people looking for ONE kid. They've been at this for approaching 24 hours with a 50% success rate. This kid isn't even the confirmed bomber. He's just a suspect. This is, of course, assuming he'll get due process as a non-US civilian. Seeing as how he's a Muslim, Chechen "terrorist" he might just end up at Gitmo without so much as a word about a trial.
I've been listening to the police scanner and they've called in the EOD for a suspicious package at least once per hour.
Here are the agencies I know of that are currently involved in the manhunt.
Massachusetts National Guard and several non NG EOD units
Department of Homeland Security
NSA
FBI
CIA
Massachusetts State Police
Boston PD
There are hundreds of uniformed and badge-toting people looking for ONE kid. They've been at this for approaching 24 hours with a 50% success rate. This kid isn't even the confirmed bomber. He's just a suspect. This is, of course, assuming he'll get due process as a non-US civilian. Seeing as how he's a Muslim, Chechen "terrorist" he might just end up at Gitmo without so much as a word about a trial.
I've been listening to the police scanner and they've called in the EOD for a suspicious package at least once per hour.
Eggs Mayonnaise
All In With The Nuts
The guys are suicide bombers, heavily armed, running around a very localized area. No way of knowing how much they had stockpiled or if they set off other bombs.
What the hell would you do instead? This isn't a lone gunman on a clocktower.
What the hell would you do instead? This isn't a lone gunman on a clocktower.
Eggs Mayonnaise
All In With The Nuts
8 explosions just went off -- they think it's the cops setting off flash-bangs trying to bring down/force out the suspect.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
Jesus fucking christ leave it to every right wing idiot to start seeing black helicopters in the sky and boogiemen under the bed. Want fear? Go read a Stephen King novel. But stop running around screaming the sky is falling and the government is coming for everyone. I've spent the entire day listening to your right wing "media" outlets and I can honestly say I feel a whole lot dumber for it.
Filthy Whore
Mad Arse Face
Why would you subject yourself to that?
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
First rule of conflict. Know thy enemy.
Dirk Funk
Evil Penguin
There's nothing wrong with being vigilant, Sarek. Tyranny doesn't usually come about because the government seizes power, rather it comes about because people GIVE the government power. They buy into the scare stories and propaganda from the State, they gladly hand over liberties a bit at a time in exchange for the promise of safety. A disturbing number of people actually swallow the line "I'm not doing anything wrong, so I have nothing to fear from the government." Or my personal favorite, in light of CISPA and other such schemes: "If the government wants to listen to my calls and read my emails, fine with me, I'm not doing anything wrong. They can read my recipes and letters to my grandkids." I die a little bit inside when I hear otherwise intelligent people say things like that.
People accept the continuing militarization of police, they see nothing wrong with police - who are CIVILIANS, BTW - acquiring more and more military-esqe weapons. Police being given immunity or not prosecuted when they send SWAT teams to raid the wrong house and kill innocent people. Instead it's "Sorry, my bad. Sorry about your dead kid, but you can't do anything to us." Prosecutors not being held accountable for wrongful prosecutions, etc.
People see nothing wrong with government passing more and more laws that exempt themselves. A wise man once said: " 'Righteous for me, but not for thee' is the aphorism of the tyrant." Here in California it's illegal to hold a cell phone while driving. You must use a hands free device. Texting while driving is also illegal. I can't tell you how many times I've passed cops holding their cell phones up to their ears, texting while driving, and in one case, one playing some sort of game on his computer. When I called in to the local police station to report it, I was told police are exempted from those laws. How convenient. It's either a safety risk or it isn't.
I'm not exactly the type to be looking for black helicopters around every corner, or buying into all the crazy conspiracy theories. However, I'm not blind to the fact that it's human nature to crave power, government especially. Remember, Rome began as a republic. If people don't constantly watch what's going on, and we just assume the government knows best and is acting in our best interest, they will do whatever they like.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
You're right. There is nothing wrong with being vigilant. But what I listened to all day was nothing more than extreme rhetoric, lies, political maneuvering, and fear mongering.
I can sum up my entire listening experience today in four simple sentences.
1. It's ALL liberals faults. - Sean Hannity and Jason Lewis.
2. Buy more assault weapons! Buy more bullets! Buy more high capacity magazines! If I was in Boston I'd want then to protect MY family!- Sean Hannity, Jason Lewis.
3. Law Enforcement is doing a fantastic job! But it's an over reach of power by the police and law enforcement! What's next?! - Jason Lewis.
4. Though their doing a good job, the police still aren't worth what they're paid and don't deserve a pension at 55! The unions control them! - Jason Lewis.
Now, I am a cop. I make roughly 55,000 a year. I contribute to my pension. My pension is factored around a 5 year high wage. Of that, if I stay 20 years, I only collect 30% of my high 5 years. For every year over 20 I stay, my pension increases by 1.7 percent. But, it caps out at 70%. I can retire at age 55. But, I can't collect until age 62. Does that sound like I'm "getting rich off the tax payers'?
Now, am I over paid and over compensated for risking my life on a daily basis for people that just want to take what I work for and lie to the American public about what I make and what I do, to accomplish that task?
Militarization of the Police departments became necessary because of the influx of semi automatic and automatic weapons that has infiltrated the streets in the last three decades. Read up on the California Norco Bank Robbery in May of 1980. That was the catalyst that changed Police tactics, procedures and equipment. Perhaps, having done some research on it, you'll now understand why. But just to highlight quickly, five heavily armed perpetrators/urban terrorist/bandits equipped with automatic and semi automatic weapons and bullet proof armor robbed a bank in southern California. In order to combat the perpetrators, Police officers resorted to raiding a gun store by the bank to obtain weapons that were equal to those carried by the suspects. Eight Police officers died and a number were wounded because of inadequate fire power and inadequate protection. Now, who put those guns on the street? Republicans, the NRA and their gun lobby cronies who made it legal for manufacturers and merchants to sell military style weapons and armor to the general public. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't want to be out gunned by some redneck with an AR15 and an axe to grind with his wife.
Cops are trained to multitask behind the wheel. In most cases, what you're seeing isn't a cell phone but a portable radio. Technology has advanced to the point that we no longer use large bricks to communicate. In my department, we no longer have radios in the cars. We have chargers and we use the portable wherever we are. As for a computer, I seriously doubt he was playing a game as the computers aren't equipped to play games and the ability to upload software by the user is prohibited by anyone other than the techs. What you claim you saw in likelihood was an officer accessing the computer to run a license plate or acknowledge a message that was transmitted through the system.
Crave power to the point that they lie, cheat, gerrymander districts. change voting laws, and disenfranchise voters to win elections? Crave power to the point that they destroyed the economy in this country and bankrupted the government?
Conchaga
Let's fuck some shit up
Here's a fun question for Sarek, since we're on a related subject: would you, if ordered by your OIC, round-up a select segment of the population or purposefully violate the constitution by raiding a home (without just cause) to take a person's guns? In fact, do you think the majority of the officers you work with would follow orders that blatantly go against the founding principles of our country?
Basically, do you believe you and your fellow officers could unwittingly become the Gestapo?
Basically, do you believe you and your fellow officers could unwittingly become the Gestapo?
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
I work in a largely conservative career field. I'm a liberal. Most of those that I work with are conservative or conservative leaning.
In most cases, no, I would not do so unless there was imminent danger to life or limb to the person or persons from whom the weapons would be seized.
But, having described the environment I work in, I can say without a doubt that some of my more extreme co-workers probably wouldn't hesitate to start trampling individual rights. Conservatives are funny that way. They talk a good game, but when it comes down to might, they have absolutely no problem disregarding others right to exert their authority.
Conchaga
Let's fuck some shit up
I wouldn't call having two semi-automatic pistols "heavily-armed". The types of bombs they constructed take a while to build, and the marathon was their main target. They didn't really have enough time to make more devices. Not to mention that two of their other devices failed to go off. These were two amateurs who barely knew what they were doing and got lucky.
Calling in the NG was overkill, but since they're bombers I can see the need for the Boston PD's bomb squad to ask the Army for EOD support. However, a squadron of Black Hawks and a battalion of NG infantry with heavy weapons? No. These two guys were completely outgunned by Boston SWAT alone. They didn't need FBI tac teams or NSA operatives either. In my honest opinion, this is something that the Boston PD and the MA State Police along with a bit of support from outside agencies could have handled by themselves.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
They didn't "call in the National Guard". The media has blown that entire thing WAY out of proportion. They used one EOD unit because it was cost effective and convenient. They used some non law enforcement guard members to assist with search and clear operations. We do the same thing in Minnesota depending on the location and assets available. We have an Army CST unit that's constantly assisting law enforcement in cases where there's a potential or possible case for chemical or biological contamination. But they have no law enforcement authority and they are not armed. We also use guard members to assist with search and clear in lost child/abduction cases where time is critical and every body counts.
Conchaga
Let's fuck some shit up
Thank you for your answer. The intent of my question was to show that not all police officers would play ball with a government takeover. Many of the tinfoil hat brigade I've discussed this with on other forums seem to believe that all cops and military are mindless automatons who have no regard for personal freedoms. That, simply put, they are without a moral compass or the ability to judge for themselves when they're overreaching their authority.
Being prior service Army, I also agree with your assessment of those you work with, as it was similar to my experience. If ordered to occupy a city and implement martial law so that those in power could seize control or fire on unarmed civilians, I would NEVER follow such an order. It goes against everything I believe in.
No, actually, they did. Almost none of my information came from the media. I listened to the police scanners, watched footage, looked at photos, and read testimony from the civilians on the ground. They did, in fact, have an entire NG unit along with the EOD teams present. This includes half a dozen Black Hawk helicopters and several up-armored HMMWV's with .50cal's, in addition to the four Bear Cats from the Boston SWAT. Oh, and they took most of the police academy cadets to help with minor stuff. It was intense.
I see what you're saying about unarmed NG soldiers helping with NBC and lost child and abduction search and clear cases. That makes sense. In this case, however, the soldiers had their weapons. In their defense, they were incredibly cordial and tried really hard to work with the local civilians in a positive way, even if they were slightly terse at times with a small few.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
My info came through official not for public dissemination channels. As for soldiers, you sure your sources weren't confusing police officers dressed in camo for military personnel? I have my regular uniforms, black, forest camo, urban camo and desert camo uniforms that are all police issue. And as I stated above, we do carry M-4s and other "military" hardware.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
Another example of Republican bull shit.
Ever since the BP spill in the gulf, we've been listening to right wing morons like Michelle Bachmann and Florida Governor Rick Scott scream that the government is gouging BP for the damage costs and how BP shouldn't be made to pay for the damage they did.
Florida just became the 4th state to file a federal lawsuit against BP for damages. As Governor, Rick Scott is responsible for, along with the Florida Attorney General, approving any potential filing in a lawsuit on behalf of his state.
Just goes to show, when the scent of money is in the air, the mother fucking hypocrites on the right are quick to abandon principle and swarm like sharks.
Ever since the BP spill in the gulf, we've been listening to right wing morons like Michelle Bachmann and Florida Governor Rick Scott scream that the government is gouging BP for the damage costs and how BP shouldn't be made to pay for the damage they did.
Florida just became the 4th state to file a federal lawsuit against BP for damages. As Governor, Rick Scott is responsible for, along with the Florida Attorney General, approving any potential filing in a lawsuit on behalf of his state.
Just goes to show, when the scent of money is in the air, the mother fucking hypocrites on the right are quick to abandon principle and swarm like sharks.