Explanations

[YuW]

OK I missed almost everything that happened, I have picked up bits and pieces from one thread and another, but I would really like to know the whole story, wtf happened? One day the board was there and the next it’s closed, now it looks like even if it re-opens no one is going to be interested. Can someone please give me a detailed account of what happened to lead to this, we can start another thread do talk about what options are available later, first lets make sure everyone is absolutely clear on what happened. Thanks

[sturmde]

Well, Yu, it's good of you to ask.

Unfortunately, I never expected the Reichstag fire to occur. I didn't think to copy and paste the relevant threads that would have quickly explained things.

Needless to say, EFCL as an existent group of fora at verteron.net seems to be at an end.

At least, we can thank Red for his kindness in providing this forum so that we can all regroup, and re-form a proper EFCL, perhaps at the ezboard location, http://pub30.ezboard.com/bfleetcaptainslounge (which is still available) depending on who has admin rights there... Lord help us that it's only our good friend PreatorX.... or some other alternative.

In a nutshell, Blooded resigned but transferred his AdminCP to Will. Will used the access to e-mails and things to influence the election late night Friday (when the weekend hit those of us who are Mon-Fri types) centering his focus on dormant accounts.

What was a clear victory for Bobby, with Em an excellent runner-up was thus "averted".

Meanwhile, on the non-BBS #efcl chat run by Jim Gamma apparently some of them couldn't handle Daystrom giving them a good time and being his usual insistent self, and they blew up. Kept booting people.. and whatever, it's a stupid chat channel.

Jim complained to Will. Will's very anti-"Troll". Got Blooded and Verteron to agree with him that Daystrom should be permabanned.

As an aside, let me mention Verteron's not an admin, he resigned a couple weeks ago. The only clearly proper admins were Mogh and PreatorX. Blooded again had resigned two days prior. So had Verteron. Nonetheless, they putsched.

They banned Daystrom (again, because of chat), Further (because they don't like his camel pimp persona?), TMM3K (because they don't like that he almost exposed the Will/Blooded scam--he was so close, that fellow), Richard (because of things the membership already forgave him for), and Executor (who they banned just because--he'd done nothing wrong on the BBS).

A lot of us objected to the why and how of it all. We had precedents set with ares on how we banned.

Vedek raised questions about how and why these people were illegally expelled. Elysium added in. I added in.

I raised a vote of No Confidence in Will.

Another member made a motion to restore voting rights to TMM3K, Daystrom, Executor, Richard, and Further. (I would go in and add batlh to the list, and frankly after these scams have been exposed, maybe it's time for ares to get another chance.)

Anyway... they couldn't handle the dissent. They couldn't handle the fact that their actions were in direct contravention of the Constitution.

So they slammed the place shut.

And thus also stifled and cut off debate.

I'm sure when it "reopens"... every valid point Elysium, or Cal, or Vedek made along with everything I said will be conveniently "excised".

Along with a few more members "they don't like"

Along with whole chunks of the Constitution.

Along with PreatorX... bye.

And along with Mogh.

Just like the Tea Room got axed there, and they act like missmanners wanted that. No she didn't, she just said she couldn't moderate a forum where she was expected to issue warnings based on other people's opinions....

They like to lie.

But, "they're here to help you".... Sort of like the Federal Government.

But, much worse than Christian could ever be accused of. At least we can all agree that Christian owns his board de facto free and clear (even if you argue how that came about.) Nobody "owned" the EFCL.

[Dr. Phlox]

It's all Will's fault then? Grr. :evil: I wondered how he managed to win that election.

So who's in charge of the place now? Surely Will isn't anymore. Who shut it?

[Verteron]

Well, here's my side of the story for what it's worth. Whether you believe me is your own choice.

Will. Will used the access to e-mails and things to influence the election late night Friday (when the weekend hit those of us who are Mon-Fri types) centering his focus on dormant accounts.

Not entirely true. Anyone can access a list of e-mail addresses. Will attempted to campaign for his election using e-mail and PM. Anyone could have done the same, with or without admin privileges.

This unfortunately was unconstitutional, although I didn't realise this at the time, campaigning by PM was 'outlawed' when the community created Sectio 7 on voting. I forgot the policy I wrote which was then ratified.

Meanwhile, on the non-BBS #efcl chat run by Jim Gamma apparently some of them couldn't handle Daystrom giving them a good time and being his usual insistent self, and they blew up. Kept booting people.. and whatever, it's a stupid chat channel.

A lot of people disagree with that. The chat channel was a vibrant and well used extension of the EFCL. We have to have rules to govern conduct there just as we need rules on the board. Since the people decided that the chatroom was part of the board, things there count just as much on the board as they do in the chatroom...

As an aside, let me mention Verteron's not an admin, he resigned a couple weeks ago. The only clearly proper admins were Mogh and PreatorX. Blooded again had resigned two days prior. So had Verteron. Nonetheless, they putsched.

Not true. Mogh took a break until midweek this week while he moves back to university. I was passed the torch as a temporary fill in admin. Blooded decided to take a break for personal reasons and passed the torch to Adm.Will as a temporary replacement. Blooded did not resign. Therefore, upon Blooded's return, he and I were 'de facto' admins. Adm.Will then won the election (see above), we assumed constitutionally, and became a 'de facto' administrator. The events in the chatroom took place over a 30 minute period long after the closure of the elections poll.

Daystrom (again, because of chat), Further (because they don't like his camel pimp persona?), TMM3K (because they don't like that he almost exposed the Will/Blooded scam--he was so close, that fellow), Richard (because of things the membership already forgave him for), and Executor (who they banned just because--he'd done nothing wrong on the BBS).

Daystrom and thematrixman3000 have both received six warnings, the highest count on record. Further harrassed a minor in the chatroom with sexual language, and then posted a log on the board. This is a violation of the IRC network's acceptable use terms, and was raised before. The minor involved was, by coincidence, matrix. By posting it on the board he also violated my terms of service for web hosting. Therefore I felt I had no other choice. Richard, if anything, was the most dubious choice, however, we agreed he was on probation after spamming the registration bot.

I now accept these bans were the wrong choice at the wrong time. I assumed this to be what the members wanted based on the chats I'd had with members who left us. I am upset at every lost member and talk to them all. Although I do not agree with the assessment myself, the majority of people raised this names and the word 'troll' when asked about their reasons.

Executor is not banned from the board and never was. He found his account to be inaccessible some months ago and showed no interest in having it fixed, as far as I'm aware. I didn't handle this personally.

Anyway.. they couldn't handle the dissent. They couldn't handle the fact that their actions were in direct contravention of the Constitution. So they slammed the place shut.

Yep. Some of us have more important things to do to sit around and listen to people argue over a decision that at the time we thought would help the board and was what people wanted. The obvious constitutional flaws and loopholes have made us see the need for action. Hence the closure while we (being Blooded and I, primarily), decide what the hell we should do.

Just like the Tea Room got axed there, and they act like missmanners wanted that. No she didn't, she just said she couldn't moderate a forum where she was expected to issue warnings based on other people's opinions....

Again, I don't know where you're getting this from - missmanners send a private message to all of the admins asking for her name and the words "tea" and "room" off the front page within 24 hours. We complied with her wishes. Apparently the forum was created under a special agreement with PreatorX, an agreement we knew nothing about thanks to his absence.

Jim complained to Will. Will's very anti-"Troll". Got Blooded and Verteron to agree with him that Daystrom should be permabanned.

Again, not true. This was brought up by Blooded way back in the CR. I added my voice based on the chats I've had with former members. Of course Will agreed, but it was not his decision.

sturmde -

Feel free to regroup wherever you choose and with whoever you choose. The board will re-open at the domain and there will be some changes. We will not be throwing out the constitution, but no-one says you have to stay if you don't want to.

The four exclusions will probably be undone. No-one else will be secretly banned. There will be constitutional changes (not a as huge a overhaul as you seem to think) to close loopholes. I think perhaps a few people will leave efcl.net of their own choice, but this is not something I can control. I haven't told him yet, but it looks like we'll have to ask Adm.Will to step down, since we didn't realise his election was unconstitutional. I honestly forgot what we'd decided as a community on this, probably thanks to my lacklustre attempts to upload the constitution to a separate page in an incomplete form. Call this my failiure, if you like...

No-one owns the name or the rights to the 'EFCL'. You're free to create your own version if you so wish, with all the same fora and the exact same constitution. The colour scheme and layout of the current board belongs to me, the banner logo belongs to Aatrek. Posts belong to the people who posted them originally, as clearly stated in the disclaimer and sign-up policy.

And that, my dears, is the honest-to-goodness truth, at least my interpretation of events.

[YuW]

So mistakes have been made, that’s something that can happen. I think perhaps things could be reconciled, but I think the best thing to do is reopen the board, and let us all talk about it there. If the policies need to be changed, then I think discussions should be held on the board. If as you say Vertron you are going to be making things better, then I have little doubt that people will support the changes. A question, has Blooded quit or not? He said he had, and then he didn’t and then he did again, and then he closed the board. I’ll be honest he has acted like asshole while here, and I personally have very little faith in any admin who can’t make up there mind as to weather they are coming or going, and one who seems to think insulting remarks are perfectly acceptable after turfing out the members of the board with no warning. At least you are here talking about it, and admitting that things need to change.

This needs to be resolved as soon as possible, with each day that passes more people will leave and simply not come back.

[BobbyT]

The best thing I'm seeing here is that it is being admitted that mistakes were made. I think that is the best start for anything.

[$M Gayboy Bruce Wayne]

Blooded never quit. He posted last week or so saying he wanted to take a break form the place. Which others have done, for various RL reasons. For his part, he received some warm replies a la "come back soon" etc.

Where it got sticky was that in the same thread, he announced that he had appointed Adm. Will as his temporary successor, which left some of us scratching our heads. There was a hole in the Admin team as PX and Mogh were away as well. But how Will suddenly became a successor was a little out of the blue (at least to those of us without CR access).

This was all before the Board Chancellor elections, also...

[BobbyT]

actually, some of us in the CR were also scratching our heads. I was one of them...

[missmanners]

Originally posted by "Verteron"


Again, I don't know where you're getting this from - missmanners send a private message to all of the admins asking for her name and the words "tea" and "room" off the front page within 24 hours. We complied with her wishes. Apparently the forum was created under a special agreement with PreatorX, an agreement we knew nothing about thanks to his absence.

When a moderator censored someones post, then moved that thread into my forum, I discussed it with Mogh on MSN. I don't keep logs, but I remember very clearly
being in the chatroom (probably #tk) with PX when he said there would be a tea room at EFCL. I agreed as long as there was no censorship or warnings in the forum. There was no real formal agreement and at the time it was to be a place for about 30 of us to go hang out. I'm sure friends handing out warnings and bans to friends was the last thing on anyones mind.
Mogh was totally surprised to find out I would not, under any circumstances, give a warning in that forum and that I did not want anyone else doing it either. Up until that time, there had not been any problems with any one being out of line. There were a couple of things I thought some people might object to and I privately asked the poster to please edit and they always did.
I told Mogh at that time that if there was to continue to be a Tea Room there or anything with my 'name' on it, there could be no censorship or warnings and that the censored thread would have to be moved somewhere else. Mogh said he would talk it over with the other Admins.
When I next logged in there was a post by Blooded in a "Practice your Flaming" thread that I had started 5 days earlier. this was more or less a joke, since no flaming was going on and in fact it was mostly a discussion of flaming. Several moderators posted in the thread and no one complained. But Blooded picked that time to remind everyone that flaming was not allowed in any forum.
So there I had my answer. Administration was not willing to keep a no censorship, no warnings forum even though there had never been any trouble there and doing things my way was working.
It was then that I sent the PM to Vert, Blooded, and Mogh asking them to change the name of that forum to anything that did not include the words missmanners, Tea and Room. I thought it would be hypocritical of me to continue to be listed as a moderator there when I feel so strongly about no censorship and no warnings.
A moderator should act as a host not a tyrant trying to control the posters.

Oh and a good host offers cookies

;)
mm

[Lord Blooded]

MM, lets tell the truth eh? The main reason you wanted that forum gone is because TK plan to copyright the name. You even admitted this to me in chat.

And Yu, I didn't quit. If people were able to read a bloody thread properly, they'd see that I was only taking a break for a few days. I came back on Sunday, not long before the bans took place.

I gave Will admin powers as basically, he was in the right place and the right time. I had faith in his Admin abilities, and had a lengthy discussion with him about how I don't want him using his powers to get rid of the Trolls that he is having problems with at the moment. He promised me he wouldn't, so I let him take my place for a few days. In my thread, I also said that I didn't want people to let his new position alter the way they voted in the BC elections.

Can I also please confirm that I had bugger all to do with the "campaigning" that was done via PM and Email. I wasn't even aware that it was happening until the Sunday I returned. I had absolutly nothing to do with the campaigning, but whether you believe me or not is up to you.

Maybe making Will admin was a mistake at the time. Had I known what would happen due to this decision, I wouldn't have made him Admin. But for you to claim that he is behind the bans, well that is just bloody stupid.

Also, Yu, I had very little to do with the bans. Yep, good ol' Blooded did not have any ideas about the bans until roughly half hour before they were made. I was taken into our staff chatroom, and was told about the bans that were being proposed. Also, I took part in the discussion about how we should deal with the bans, but I sure as hell was not around when the bans were first proposed. But let me clarify that I did agree with the action that the others wanted to take, and that I will take as much of the blame as them.

Who proposed the bans? To be honest, I have no idea. Do I want to know? No. Everyone present in that chat agreed with the bans, and so I dont think it matters who proposed them. But then again, that is just my opinion.

Also, it was not me who said the board should be closed. I'm sure Vert wont mind me telling you all that it was his idea to close the board for a few days. It is also his right to close it. He pays for it, and so he can close it if he feels it to be the best option. At first, I was a bit hesitant(sp) about closing it, and asked him to put it off for a bit. But nto long after, I fully agreed with the action he wanted to take, and stand by him on his decision to close it. Now that it is closed, we have a chance to fix the thing. To be honest, the board closing for a while is the best thing that could happen to it.

So Yu, do me a favour and not blame me for everything that happened eh? ;)

[DEAverification]

Right then....

How about someone just tell me when the board will be opened up, because I expect some traffic in my little forum.

I really don't care who the administrators are, well, unless someone squeaks Lisa in... http://www.terranbbs.com/~lanedea/eek3.gif

[YuW]

See now I’m confused, I went to EFCL because a bunch of people I know post there and I thought it would be a fun place to be, and I thought the whole democratic board thing was an interesting (if not very flawed) experiment. So in truth I tried to stay away from the politics, the few things I did pick up: 1. You blooded quit, when the whole Cali (s/p?) thing happened, (note I don’t even know who she is) then you where an admin again, I looked around and couldn’t find a thread that explained it, though I’m sure there was one, needless to say I shrugged it off and thought “oh well, odd but never mind”. Now it seems that you said you where quitting/having a brake/not going to be admining what ever, so this leads me to the conclusion that A. you have absolutely no idea what you want to be doing, or B. you are completely indecisive. Or a combination of the two. I would like to point out however that while my spelling abilities may indeed suck the rigged cock of Satan, my reading comprehension is remarkably exceptional. But sadly even I can not read a thread on a board that is closed. Needless to say the threads I do read I do indeed, as you so eloquently put it “read bloody properly”.

Vert closing the board was a mistake, and a badly timed one, he has said as much, fine these things happen, now it need to be re-opened so the mess can be cleaned up. I haven’t blamed you for everything that happened, but you have publicly said you would rather take a bullet to the head than have a board like TK.. this is even metaphorically a bit extreme, and very ironic considering that the good people at TK have the e only version of EFCL open to the membership at this point.. have you loaded your gun yet?

Melodrama and insults will get no where, people need to sit down and talk about this if it’s going to be sorted out, I’m sure your not to blame for everything, but as one of the Admins involved with the closer of the BBS, I think you can see your not going to be coming out of this smelling of roses.

As DEA said no one cares who the Admins are, so long as the board works, it needs to be re-opened. Placing blame is not what we need to be doing, we need to concentrate on sorting the mess out and finding a way to enter it doesn’t happen again. Your post here has been honest and directly addressed the issues, while I may not agree with some of what you said, I still think you have done the right thing by addressing the situation, and not heading off into another flame war, at least we can all now talk about what’s going on and how to fix it.

Lane asked a good question, when is the board going to re-open?

[Lord Blooded]

I believe that Calli left, then I quit. Not long after, I PMed Vert and spoke to him about how I would like to see EFCL become a great board. I said I would like to Admin again, if he would have me. He posted a poll, in which every voting member said they wanted me back. That was quite some time ago now. A few days ago, I wanted to take a break as I had just dealt with some big problems (cant go into them, but they concerned EFCL) and I just wanted to sit back for a fea days. After a few days, I returned.

Also, there are a group of people currently working on relaunching EFCL. We are trying to make it more friendly, and lessen the amount of Politics. We are making changes that will make the place more fair, and more enjoyable. I've adopted the motto "Less Politics, More Friendships" and that is what I am using when I help relaunch our site. I'm sure you like what you get.

And in regards to when it will be ready... Well "it will be ready when it is ready ;)". We have set ourselves a deadline of next friday, but we may end up having to extend that deadline depending on how much we can get doen in that time. If the board is open before next Friday, think fo it as a bonus ;)

[sturmde]

Originally posted by "Lord Blooded"

...there are a group of people currently working on relaunching EFCL....

Who? What group of people? Who chose them? You get where I'm leading to yet? They're not working on any relaunch of EFCL, they're working on what I'll call SDG Mark II.

We

Who's the "we"?

are trying to make it more friendly, and lessen the amount of Politics.

No, you're trying to prevent anyone having an opinion different from yours not welcome. You're for banning people, and you have no desire to be responsive or responsible.

We

Again, who the fuck are the "we"?

are making changes that will make the place more fair,

More fair? And if you don't find it "more fair", you'll just shut it down again?

and more enjoyable. I've adopted the motto "Less Politics, More Friendships" and that is what I am using when I help relaunch our site. I'm sure you like what you get.

"Our"? "when I"? "I'm sure"? You're a tin pan dictator.

And in regards to when it will be ready... Well "it will be ready when it is ready ;)". We have set ourselves a deadline of next friday, but we may end up having to extend that deadline depending on how much we can get doen in that time. If the board is open before next Friday, think fo it as a bonus ;)

"We?" "A bonus?" The real EFCL could relaunch anytime... simply give up your illegal, unconstitutional coup d'état.

WHAT YOU ARE REOPENING IS NOT EFCL. IT IS THE BLOODED FAN CLUB CLEARLY.

You still don't get it that there's no way the membership of EFCL would install you in any position of authority ever again.

But you'd never put any of this "relaunch" crap to a vote of the true membership.

You're just continuing to perpetrate a scam.

Your involvement with any restoration of EFCL is a scam.

[A89Aries]

A few days ago, I wanted to take a break as I had just dealt with some big problems (cant go into them, but they concerned EFCL) and I just wanted to sit back for a fea days. After a few days, I returned. here we see an internet loser who is dramitly affected by an internet bbs. god your just as bad as mumma :roll:

[Lord Blooded]

Says the same person who posted that he was going to kill himself because of people banning him from an internet BBS^ :rolleyes:

[WordInterrupted]

I hope that one day, when my post count at trek is finally high enough, I will be able to join EFCL, but in the meantime I think I can offer some general comments.

(1) Closing down the board was a very bad decision. It seems like you try to administrate the board in a very democratic fashion. Well, democracies don't solve problems by cutting off debate. If you really want to run the board in a democratic fashion, you should be able to talk through your problems, discuss them with each other, and work out some kind of mutually acceptable solution. From a democratic perspective, shutting down the board was the worst thing you could possibly do.

(2) Verteron says that he will be changing the constitution. Don't you have some kind of process for ratifying amendments? Will the members get to vote on the changes he makes?

[A89Aries]

Originally posted by "Lord Blooded"

Says the same person who posted that he was going to kill himself because of people banning him from an internet BBS^ :rolleyes:
yo, dick breath, that had nothing to do with your pathetic attempt at a message board so shut the fuck up.

[Bodybag]

WordInterrupted, you remind me of a young Lech Walesa.

[WordInterrupted]

^^^^^^^Thank you! That's the nicest compliment I've been given in a long time.

And please, call me Wordin. No need to stand on formality.

[Bodybag]

Originally posted by "WordInterrupted"

^^^^^^^Thank you! That's the nicest compliment I've been given in a long time.

And please, call me Wordin. No need to stand on formality.

From now on, I shall. I hope the electorate at the Eternal Fleet Captain's Lounge recognizes you as an asset. From what I have read, it appears that a watchdog group is necessary there, and you are clearly someone who is more than able to spearhead such an endeavor. The TrekBBS public clearly does not appreciate all that you have undertaken.

[BlazerBoy]

Originally posted by "MASTER of the obvious"

Says the same person who posted that he was going to kill himself because of people banning him from an internet BBS^ :rolleyes:
yo, dick breath, that had nothing to do with your pathetic attempt at a message board so shut the fuck up.


Well gee, thanks for looking up your old friends when you came back.....

[DEAverification]

*tries to determine what dick breath would smell like*

[missmanners]

Originally posted by "DEAverification"

*tries to determine what dick breath would smell like* :shock:

hee hee hee

*waits for the next snappy comeback*

;)
mm

[$M Gayboy Bruce Wayne]

Well, I--

Nah. It's too easy...

:twisted:

[DEAverification]

There won't be any snappy comeback, because the individual I'm talking about isn't capable of comebacks at all.

While I actually like the term, the person whom used it is a weak individual that only follows, never leads. See's where things are going and makes adjustments becaue of his friends. It's a 13 year old politician for sure,and someone who doesn't have a clue...

Eat him up...

[YuW]

Originally posted by "DEAverification"

the individual I'm talking about isn't capable of comebacks at all.



Well I have to say your wrong there DEA, when you say he has no comebacks, sure he has, he’s got lots of cum going right down the back of his throat.... He drinks from the pork fountain on a regular basis if his comments are anything to go by. I do hope you try and be a bit more accurate with your posts in future.

[DEAverification]

Ok...

Ewwwwwwwwww. :P

[DEAverification]

Yu hit it right on the head, yet again...

http://www.trollkingdom.com/phpBB2/images/avatars/109.jpg